So, technically, “boundaried” isn’t a word. I had the whole bound and gagged thing going so we are all going to have to agree that “boundaried” is now a word. Someone call Merriam Webster and let them know. Unless they’re too busy trolling 45 on Twitter.
I love that the dictionary hangs shit on the president. The fucking dictionary. You have to be some kind of loser, dipshit, moron to get the dictionary mad at you.
But I digress because not everything is about Trump. I think. I’m not even sure about that anymore.
I mean, how can I write this post about dealing with the aftermath of a narcissistic parent and not have a toxic orange cloud hanging over it?
I read an article about the possible and likely results of being raised by a malignant narcissist. I won’t go through all of the results because that would be a book sized post. There were, however, a few that jumped out at me.
One expected result of a narcissistic parent means not having an understanding of how to set healthy boundaries.
Yeah. I totally get that one.
First, I am happy to say that this is something that I’ve since gotten my head around, but fucking hell you guys, it took so many years.
When I was a young adult, I had no recognizable boundaries.
I didn’t understand that boundaries were a thing. I didn’t know I could insist on being treated with respect. I didn’t understand I could reject behavior from others which affected me in a negative way. I didn’t know that I could say “no”.
I know I didn’t like to be mistreated, but I felt I didn’t have the right to not be mistreated.
I don’t mean I didn’t have a right to defend myself, not that I was effective at defending myself. I could be loud and angry, but ineffectual. I always backed down because, ultimately, I felt I got what I deserved. Boundaries are hard to establish when you feel like 
you have nothing worth protecting.
I began establishing boundaries long before I understood parental narcissism and am comfortable with the ones I have in place.
That is very nearly true!
It’s possible I’m not completely there yet.
I am terrible at some types of confrontation.
Often, if I am in a confrontation, I defer rather than engage. I have a visceral reaction to confrontation, no matter how small. Confrontation makes my skin feel like it has an electric current sliding over it and makes my brain buzz like a chain saw. Nothing triggers my need for “flight” more than confrontation. Unless I get super pissed and my “flight” turns to “fight”. I avoid, defer, and allow boundaries to be crossed until I get angry enough, then I lose my shit. That doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.
I would so love to find a way to live in between. I would love to insist boundaries be respected in a calm and direct manner instead of acquiescing or foaming at the mouth.
You guys, I just spelled “acquiescing” right the first time. I thought for sure I would need Google.
I can’t say there has been no progress. I have initiated some uncomfortable conversations and continue to do so when necessary. I have at least a 50% chance of getting through these conversations with no tears.
In any case, I am happy with the progress I’ve made when it comes to boundaries. It means I care enough about myself to protect me. This is worth it’s weight in gold. Which really means no gold because I am pretty sure being a self-advocate is weightless.
There’s another point which resonated with me.
Being raised by a narcissist can render you unable to put your needs and desires into words. In essence, you’re gagged.
Holy. Shit.
Absolutely this. It’s complicated because it’s not just one thing which makes this difficult.
First, if you are told that you don’t matter over and over as a child, then you feel like your needs are not only inconsequential, but selfish. How can you express your needs and desires when your brain tells you “you don’t deserve that. Who are you to even ask?”
Secondly, when you are raised by a narcissist, your decision making skills are fucked.
How are you supposed to verbalize your needs and desires when you aren’t sure what they are?
I’m not really sure where I am with this one. It’s not like I am unaware of this issue. I just don’t like thinking about it too much.
I get frustrated when I can’t formulate a thought about what I want or need, so I write something or watch Netflix instead. I guess if I’m going to claim this is the “gagged” part of the post, then the gag is at least somewhat self-inflicted. Perhaps, I should explore this a little.
Or I could finish watching American Gods.
Photo courtesy of Ivan Pretorius
Oh fucking hell! This is all about me, and it’s still hard to deal with. Another great post about narcissism. xx
It’s super hard to deal with..but we all are doing what we can do. Be kind to yourself. 🙂
Molto awesome – thank you.
I didn’t have a narcissistic parent (though my mother certainly had definite leanings and then there was one sibling…) but there’s a lot of overlap.
“Confrontation makes my skin feel like it has an electric current sliding over it and makes my brain buzz like a chain saw.”
THIS! EXACTLY!
The one fabola bit about being an older type babe is that, though confrontation still zaps me silly, I can now remain outwardly calm (not cry anger tears which is a total debate loser) and firm.
Also too – congrats on “acquiescing.”
I had a horrible confrontation months ago and was able to detach while it was happening (an added bonus of my mental illness) and was congratulated for how well I handled it by the people who witnessed it. I literally felt like I was dying afterwards and I am still not over it. It happened in December of last year. I’m glad I didn’t cry because yes..that invalidates everything. I fucking HATE it when I can’t control the tears.
Angry tears person here. I also cry when people are TOO NICE to me or try to be comforting. Sucks.
Me too. I turned my tears off around my mid 30s. I refused to cry because I knew I couldn’t control it if I did, so I avoided all situations that would bring tears. As I have aged, I no longer have that ability and I cry more freely, but it’s not as bad as my late teens and twenties. Still, I HATE it when I can’t control it.
It takes me forever (it seems) to trash the whirlwind of hurt, anger, what-ifs and such after confrontation. I feel like this ought to be my next goal.
I’m so damn sorry that you go through this too!
At least we’re not alone. There are people out there who understand and for that I am grateful.
Being able to detach during extreme emotion is actually very healthy! It is a key survival strategy. It doesn’t mean you didn’t feel (as you know), just that your brain knew the best way through was to stay calm and soldier on. I hate conflict too. I was recently involved in some drama with a parent in my son’s band who escalated it to absurd degrees. It was an emotional whack-a-mole situation. Just when I thought it had been resolved, it popped up again. Luckily, I only had to deal with the confrontation face-to-face once, but each subsequent interaction was via email. Face to face was the hardest, as you know, because you have to hold the line while someone else escalates. I felt like someone had shot me through with 1,000 espresso shots afterwards. The next two interactions were via email. In that case, I got to feel the espresso jolt up front. Then I could write it all out – even the pissy stuff. I went through 4 drafts of each letter, carefully removing any emotionally charged language, until I was just dealing with facts and behaviors, nothing personal or slanderous. It’s over now, but it still galls me. Throughout it all, I found detachment to be a powerful ally. In the end, she looked like a screaming banshee and I appeared to be reasonable. Yes, her shrillness may have gotten a few people to listen to (and even believe) her story, but calm truth will win (she didn’t get what she wanted and is out of the band – we are now drama free!). I’ve had a crass analogy running through my head – “bitches” are nasty and get more bitches on their side to gang up on you. I’m a “cunt” and I will fuck you all by myself.
It is good to detach, but I have no control over it (or at least very little) and I end up not feeling some of the good stuff as well as the bad.
I didn’t mean to minimize your pain. Just hoping you can tap into it as a superpower, when it can be useful. You’ve obviously touched all of us with your experience.
You didn’t at all! And thank you. I hope it helps. It helps me.
Ouch. I recognize more of this in myself than I expected. Perfect timing, as well. My ex (of over 9 years) texted me yesterday wanting to borrow money. And I felt guilty for saying no. But I did say no. And it bothered me that I felt guilty. Sigh. Baby steps.
I completely understand this. I am also glad you said no. If you felt guilty, then you felt guilty. No big. You said no and that is what matters.
Yes, yes and yes to those 3 biggies. I definitely feel your pain.
I wish I had made more progress.
Back to Netflix I guess. It’s too much to think about.
Like the word boundaried though!!!! It actually IS a word now. 🙂
YAY for new words!!!
It is too much sometimes and there is nothing wrong with Netflix binges. xo
🙂
Language shapes the way we perceive the world and obviously there’s a need for the word “boundaried” to help better understand things. So it’s a word. And I had that in the back of my mind when I came to this line: “I can’t say there has been no progress.”
You know how schoolteachers used to tell us to never use double negatives? They told us that because they were lazy and didn’t want to explain the right way to use double negatives and that sometimes it’s necessary to use them, just like sometimes it’s necessary to make up new words.
I’m focusing on all this because you have such a strong grasp of language, you are so good with words, that it blows really hard that sometimes you can’t find the words for what you want or need. And yet I think you’re getting there. You’re good enough to get there.
I can’t describe the feeling of not being able to come up with a coherent thought when I have to make a decision or try to answer the question “What do I want?” It’s like my brain is filled with hazy blanks. It’s frustrating and scary and I hate it. I’m trying to just not fight it anymore and am trying to be more accepting of how I am right now. If I am honest, I am hopeful that this course of action will trick my brain into relaxing and giving me the goddamn answers I am looking for.
What’s the difference between a malignant narcissist and a garden variety one? (Real question.) My mother is a narcissist, but not the type to bluster and bully. She was always a victim and had zero empathy for others’ struggles. She was great at getting us to accept shit from her without seeming demanding. My friends thought she was awesome because she was “cool” and they could talk about anything around her. She had a lot of really great friends, too, who would often pull me aside when they were confused by her behavior. She even had her masters degree in marriage and family counseling, so she was very good at appearing to respond with empathy. It was *very* tricky to navigate in our household and my siblings and I each ended up with our own type of damage.
Bound and gagged is a great description! I can relate to everything in this post. I used to end up crying every time I got angry (not anymore, yay!) and I think it was because of what you point out about not feeling worthy of anything.
P.S. I’ve discovered this great app called Grammarly which points out spelling and grammatical errors as you write (and then offers solutions). It’s much faster than checking Google for finding the correct spelling.
What I am reading is malignant narcissism is what happens when a person’s narcissism seeps out of healthy and normal narcissism into something that is damaging to others, so I would say your mother definitely falls into that category. And thank you for the app tip!
What you may be seeing here, my darling Michelle, is that some of these traits have pervaded the lives of so many of us, even those without narcissistic parents. I hope you know that in NO WAY am I minimalizing your pain. But I too, (and yes, I know I’m a lawyer) hate confrontation. And I despise crying in front of someone during a confrontation because it makes me feel so weak. I want to scream, “I’m not crying because I’m sad. It’s because I’m so frustrated.” And probably because the person is an asshole, But I digress. I, too hate all these issues and feel like “will I ever get better at it?” And even though you started with boundaries, that’s a whole other discussion. Is it possible that this is also a part of trying to ‘be a nice girl?” Thanks as always for your thought-provoking and courageous posts! Love you, girl!
I don’t feel at all that you are minimizing my pain..not even a little. It would be ludicrous to suggest that only people who are the product of a narcissistic parent feel these things. I TRY to be very careful to NOT portray that because I don’t want to minimize other people’s experiences or feelings. Thank you, my friend..I am so glad you are here.
Yes. The uncontrollable tears after being pushed too far.
My BFF has watched while I go from ‘taking it’ to ‘not liking it’ to ‘building up steam’ to ‘eruption.’
She has said it is like watching a boiling pan of oatmeal.
The tears are the warning sign that it’s all over and now you shall pay.
I AM better at disengaging and weighing the validity of an actual win vs. a who fucking cares, but it’s only because I have limited my exposure.
‘Boundaried and gagged’ is perfect in it’s simplicity.
And Kudos for spelling that other big word… I hate when I have to do that, too…. the “acquiescing” part, not the building bigger boundaries part, I hate that part too, but I know better than to do it the other way 🙁
Damn Girl… You go on with your Bad Ass self <3
Boiling oatmeal. I like that. It is accurate. When it boils, shit is going to happen.
This sounds very familiar, michelle. I used to people please. Always making sure everyone else was happy, afraid to offend anyone. It’s no way to live. I’m still learning to express my displeasure or anger when I feel it, not two months or two years later. It really isn’t healthy but I believe many of these were coping mechanisms. Also, it was ‘normal’ to second guess everything. Who knew what kind of mood father would be in today…?
oh god..living at the whim of another human’s moods is torture. It’s just torture.
The last 2 really struck me. I can relate to all of it but, you are bringing it into the light for many of us, Michelle. When I get really pissed at my husband I write him a note/letter/short book…because I can’t handle the confrontation. I lived in a variety of shit storms with my mother’s multiple husbands and boyfriends. I suck at fighting.
xob
I am so sorry that is your experience..but I totally get being bad at confrontation. Mostly, when I am in the shit of it, I can fake my way through one..but then I break down. Sometimes for days.
Boundaried is a word now. I say this as someone who makes up words–do you understand what I mean? Yes? Then it is a word.
And now I know who I blame my mind’s lack of forming a coherent thought about my feelings!
I try to laugh because I want to cry. And I’m at work. And then if people asked me what is wrong I wouldn’t be able to form a coherent thought about it.
I have boundary issues in that I have a wall that very few people can get through. I am sure I deflected love and caring from good people because they weren’t able to get past that wall. But for those few I have no boundaries. Their needs and feelings are mine. What I need even if I could verbalize it doesn’t matter. Even if I am asked. I say “I’m fine” when I’m not and if you can tell I’m not I still won’t be able to tell you why. The answer often escapes even me.
Thank you for this knowledge–including the knowledge that it’s not just me.
We’re all in this together..we might as well prop each other up as much as we can. xo
Pretty much ditto, though I’m better at confrontation & boundaries than I was when I started doing the work at 47. There are times when I get caught off guard & I fall into allowing someone to suck me into caretaking to the extreme. It doesn’t take as long for me to connect feeling sucked dry & exhausted with leaky boundaries.
The consequences & fallout of few boundaries in my teens & 20’s are still a part of my life at 62, though I’ve forgiven myself & made peace with the more damaging ones.
I love your writing Michelle. Thank you xxxx
It’s a process and it takes time. Forgiving oneself is a HUGE step. I’m still working on that. And thank you. I love your tweets!
Google offered up 56,100 results for Boundaried, so I’m going with fuck the little wavy red lines, it’s a damn word already.
So beings that I don’t really have much relevant experience with malignant narcissism, I’ll instead base my comment on boundaries.
I’ve been, in order to not just hobble around grumbling under my breath all the damn time, setting up a few boundaries in my information gathering where Fergus is concerned.
Yes, I want to know what the damn fool has done to the country, and yes I want to stay caught up on the ever tightening noose of truth that is the Mueller investigation, but no, I don’t need to hear each factoid fourteen times in increasingly somber tones by increasingly disinvolved-but-meticulously-coiffed readers of the same damn article that everyone’s using as source material.
And I demand humor. Glorious, life reaffirming humor, that by the power of mockery can reestablish the relative priorities that have been enabling whatever level of functionality I’ve been able to fake my way into resembling for the last thirty years.
Which brings me to Andy Borowitz, of the New Yorker:
* * *
“WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Upbraiding the ESPN anchor Jemele Hill for calling Donald Trump a “white supremacist,” the White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said on Wednesday that “no one has done more than President Trump to prove that white people are not superior.”
“It’s grossly unfair that Ms. Hill sought to portray Donald Trump as an upholder of white supremacy, when everything he says or does directly undermines that whole concept,” Sanders said. “Anyone who thinks that Donald Trump is on some mission to make white people look good hasn’t been paying attention.”
Sanders urged the ESPN anchor to “do her homework” on Trump before making baseless allegations. “Read his tweets,” she said. “Listen to his speeches. If you still think Donald Trump is trying to prove that white people are superior, I tip my hat to you.”
Ending on a personal note, Sanders said that she was “a hundred-per-cent sure” that her boss is not a white supremacist. “Donald Trump cannot even spell the word ‘supremacist,’ ” she said. ”
* * *
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/white-house-rejects-supremacist-label-no-one-has-done-more-than-trump-to-prove-white-people-are-not-superior
* * *
When linking to this article on many of the more contentious sites I frequent, I have felt the need to point out that it is satire, because I apparently don’t trust a sizeable fraction of the populace to understand how a joke works…
Haha..I love Borowitz. And you’re right, a lot of people don’t get the joke…same with the Onion. Weird.
I drive Husband bonkers because—particularly when he’s already miffed—I cannot express what I want or make a request without launching into a damned presentation on Why This Is Okay And Reasonable And Also Not Actually a Big Deal. Seriously, I once asked him to get the light on his way out of the room only it took like five minutes and included the line, “Since you’re passing directly by it and really only need to raise your arm a little to tap.”
This sort of thing reads as passive-aggressive to someone who doesn’t know where it’s coming from.
Have you read the ACA Laundry List? I ask because, while I was dealing with some of column A and some of column B in that department, I noticed that there’s a lot of crossover in the ways addicts and malignant personalities can fuck up their kids. It’s not a how to not manual, but it gave me some helpful insight.
I am not familiar with that, but I will look into it. Also, I get exactly where you are coming from. When you read the words..yeah, I can see how it might appear passive aggressive..but knowing how I am and what narcissism does to a person, I know exactly where that comes from.
When I read your posts on this topic I recognize so much of myself and my mother. It makes me feel sad. For you. For me. For all who have experienced this syndrome growing up.
But hey. We are here, right? And doing ok, right?
Please say right.
Hell yes you are right! We are bad asses!
I have to process this crapola yet again…But one of your comments really hit it…”oh god..living at the whim of another human’s moods is torture. It’s just torture.” The entire time I was a child and being raised by her and spending the next 32 years working for her, as my therapist said, you take her temperature to see how you are feeling. I never knew from which direction we wind was blowing. The best day of my life was when she called and said “you just stay home and I will send you your check” instead of saying Oh Mom, I will not do ___anymore, I said Okay. Freedom!!
It’s a nightmare. I am so glad you are free!
I was not raised by “N” parents, so fortunately I didn’t experience that. However, throughout my life I have come across “N” people, mother-in-laws, bosses, daughter-in-law, co-workers, etc. They always throw me for a loop. I think I have it altogether, but somehow they manage to let me know that I am “lacking” in some way. I am 73 years old and it still bothers me. I have no idea how to confront them and when I have tried, it usually ended badly for me. When I do try to confront, I am accused of being controlling. You can’t win with these people. At my age, I just avoid contact with them as much as possible. Crying during a confrontation is the worse thing ever. Love all your comments. They help make me stronger.
You are actually doing the right thing by limiting contact. There is no point to confronting a narcissist. They will never back down, they will never be reasonable and they will always lash out with everything they have when you defend yourself. No contact or limited contact is the best course of action.
As many times as I have had contact with a “N” person, I never recognize it until it is too late.
They start out charming. Loving, even..it’s easy to get drawn in.
so there are people out there like me.. and maybe I am learning to understand me better now. for me it was my ex husband not a parent who was the narcissist, I have been divorced for 20 years and the effect of his personality still lingers…
damn
Please don’t beat yourself up over that..we are all doing what we can do. Recognize it, accept yourself and then change it at the pace you feel comfortable with. In the meantime, know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a motherfucking bad ass.
I’m impressed with what you say. You sound so coherent- so able to formulate what you need to say. I envy that. I’m so emotionally drained…exhausted. I just cannot think or write. My first realization I was raised by a narcissist sparked many a journal entries, reading, posts on acon sites. I’m numb and have no energy to fight this battle. only wishing it was different. Instead I am too involved in Netflix. Will watch Breaking Bad all over again and I won’t need to think of anything for …um…at least a few months. Yep, that sounds better than dealing.
I hide in TV shows a LOT. There have been so many days that I couldn’t face it. Sometimes, months will go by and I don’t examine it at all. It’s just been hard to ignore with the stupid POTUS being stupid trump. It’s a constant goddamn trigger.
This touches on so many things….
My first therapist pointed out that my mother was frightened, thus her anger. She was so scary that it wasn’t until just a few years before her death that I wasn’t afraid of her anymore, I could actually see the fear that drove her.
When we aren’t respected when we are children then who are we to dare respect ourselves?
Everyone deserves a basic level of respect, even us.
We so much do. XOXOXOXOX
I cannot formulate a response to this.
Haha…I understand
Hey, I’m 67 and am just now understanding parental narcissism and the long-term damage it causes–this after being raised by a narcissistic mother, then marrying and divorcing three narcissists and finally getting several other ones out of my life. And all the while asking myself “Why do I keep making the same mistakes?” Well, because of my original patterning starting with day one of my life! “Normal” has been very different for me than for most other people, for normal people. Thank God for those such as yourself who bring all this out into the light so it can die of exposure, so your laser-focus awareness can help those of us who have been in hell for so long!
I am sending you all my peaceful thoughts. Hugs and light to you, new friend.