In this corner, weighing in at none of your business because weight is not relevant. Wearing whatever the fuck she wants: Feminism.
And in this corner, wearing bitterness and generally fucking shit up that is already broken: Misandry.
You know why feminism and misandry are in separate corners? Because they’re not the same goddamn thing.
Feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
Misandry: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men.
I’ve actually heard the argument that boiled down to “Well, you can say feminism isn’t about hating men and ruining America and boiling puppies and eating babies, but that is what it means to me.” Well, you don’t get to do that. You can’t say “Hey, I know you made this pie out of apples and there is not a single blueberry in it, but to me, this is blueberry pie.” I realize in this analogy that blueberry pie equals misandry. Sorry to all the blueberry pie lovers. I just like apple pie more.
I have read people who have said (again, I am paraphrasing) “I don’t care what you say. I know some feminists and they hate men. They want to hurt men. They want to rule men.” That has zero to do with the definition of the word feminism. Are there women who identify with feminism who loathe men? Sure, I’m sure there are many. Whether or not some women despise men does not change the definition of the word. Adolph Hitler was a painter. This does not mean all painters are like Hitler.
Are there definitions of words that have completely changed? Yes. Of course. The word “gay” comes to mind. But here’s the thing. We had plenty of words to choose from to replace the word gay. For instance, if you were used to saying “I’m feeling gay today” and you meant “happy” and not “attracted to the same sex” then you had plenty of words to use as a substitute. Tell me what we get to use to substitute “feminism”? FUCKING NOTHING! Nothing. This is part of the goddamn problem. The demonization of the word feminism is intentional which makes me sad. It makes me sad when men accept the word has a negative meaning and makes me weep when women believe the word is negative.
I recently had a discussion with someone about the difference between feminism and misandry.
Last week I posted a newspaper headline on Facebook. In bold letters, the headline announced that Phelps had tied for the silver medal in one of his events.
Then, underneath that, in much smaller print, was the announcement that Katie Ledecky had broken a world record. Broken. A. World. Record.
How on earth does tying for second place deserve placement over breaking a goddamn world record?
I had a conversation through instant message with a fellow blogger named Simon from It’s A Mad, Dad World about this headline. He re-posted the picture and instant messaged me to express frustration at how some of his guy friends didn’t get what was wrong with it.
Simon: “I’m no feminist, but as a father of daughters, I try to push for equal treatment for all. (White, black, gay, female etc) so thanks for sharing it.”
Me: “Can I ask you a question? Why do you say you’re not a feminist? (Here’s where I hate social media and typing this shit, because I am afraid of coming off confrontational or judgmental and I really am not trying to). The reason I ask is because all feminism is, is promoting political, social and economic equality. It’s not man hating. It’s not women wanting more than men. It’s just equality. I hate that the word “feminism” has been demonized.”
He assured me that I didn’t sound confrontational and said that his view of a feminist was someone who pushes the rights of women over men.
Me: “I hope you reconsider what “feminism” is. That it has been hijacked and redefined is unfortunate. A feminist would never promote women over men…that is misandry. A feminist only wants equality. I abhor when women talk shit about men. I have sons. I love men and I would never consider women to be better or more worthy than men.”
Simon: “Thank you for setting me straight. To be honest, ask any regular guy what they think a feminist is and they’ll refer to the angry, screaming, bra burning image. I guess then, by your definition, I’m a feminist too.”
Me: “You are! Thank you for listening. I wish I could get more regular guys to listen because my husband and sons are tired of it. Ha not really. Probably.”
I asked him if he minded if I wrote about our conversation and he gave me the go ahead.
Simon: “You’re more than welcome to identify me, it’s not something I’m in any way offended by. I wear my new badge with pride!!! If I can just add something. I think a lot of guys are under the false impression that it’s somehow weak to support women’s rights. Like, if they do, their friends will think they’re under the whip at home or something. Just an observation.”
Here’s a PSA about whether or not it makes a man weak if he supports women’s rights: It doesn’t. In fact, I think if a man chooses to not support an idea that he knows to be true because he’s afraid of appearances, then that makes him weak.
I was so very pleased by our conversation.
This is how it works, people.
One person at a time.
Feminism does not equal misandry. Feminism is about social, political and economic equality. Feminism doesn’t threaten manhood. Feminism isn’t the devil.
Be like Simon! Be a feminist!
I hope more people become like Simon !!!!
Have the best day xox
I do too!! Thank you!
Yes, so very right. And this is why I read everything you write. Thank you!
Thank you SO SO MUCH! this makes my morning. 🙂
This is the best reference section ever.
But…. damn the ‘but.’
There’s the inevitable: There are women out there giving us a bad name under the veil of feminism.
To me, it’s no different than the bad people with guns and the suicide bombing Muslims.
The word ‘gun’ automatically triggers the image of a youth in a face bandanna rather than the sight down a barrel aimed at an elk for food for the winter.
The word ‘Muslim’ automatically triggers the image of a white sheet covered, turban wearing airplane crasher, instead of a person following the rules of their religion by wearing the required attire.
This is a hard one to comment on, but I think it boils down to this: Blame.
People are so used to deflecting responsibility that they (we) NEED a solid, concrete ‘it’s gotta be their fault’ attitude and stance.
It makes it easier to have a reason everything is going to shit, and I promise, when things go right it will be because we have ‘controlled the guns, women and immigrants.’
See how nice we can all get clumped together?
Thanks, Michelle.
You really know how to poke the Grizzly, don’t you? No worries! I have another stick ready to hand you if the Grizzly gets this one from you.
Smack him again 🙂
Oh, you are so right. People do have a negative view of feminism and that is unfortunate because it’s such a basic and unarguable concept.
I was thinking about what Simon said about the angry, screaming bra burning feminists…and I thought..well, yeah. Because asking NICELY to be treated equally goes unheard. When people don’t listen, then it’s time to get loud. That also is not the fault of feminism…that is the fault of people who want to keep women from progressing.
How many times have I had to say, “Why did you make me be a bitch? Why couldn’t you have done this when I said ‘Please?'”
And THEN I stomp my foot 😉
HAHAHAH
Right on! Feminism rocks (because women are awesome) and misandry sucks (because men are awesome). Guess what, folks – it’s not your sex that makes you a more or less worthy individual. It’s YOU.
EXACTLY!!! XOXOXOXOX
And this is why I love you. Well, one of the reasons.
I just can’t understand how the anti woman hate machine (ahem, Rush Limbaugh and co.) was so damn effective at redefining feminism. I’ve had this argument with my husband sooooo many times. He keeps telling me to stop using the word “feminism” when I’m writing and I will get more readers. (he’s a feminist, he’s just coming at it from a practical mindset.) I have yelled and screamed at him over this suggestion. Once I accused him of being a sheep and bleated at him and ran away (there might have been alcohol involved that time.) BUT when I was doing Feminist Friday posts? I stopped putting “Feminist Friday” in the headline and sure enough, more readers. Which made me happy and pissed at the same time.
Thank you, sweetness. So funny because Randy and I have had the same discussions. I can be polarizing when I talk about my intense loathing of all that is Trump..feminism..well, and cursing. But what I’ve explained is I am who I am. If I can’t be who I am HERE..then there is no point in blogging at all. I’m doing this for me.
I’m commenting here because the image of Gretchen bleating at her husband knocked me off the couch. This is beautiful. Rational discussion makes me swoon. I will even admit to an aversion to what feminism has been hijacked to mean – it’s hard to resist because as soon as you use the word half the audience shuts you out. If I see one more woman commenter presumably exercising her right to vote and own property refer to feminists as “onea them bra burners” I’m gonna lose my shit.
HAHHAHA..I know! I love Gretchen!
And thank you so much for calling this beautiful. You made me blush.
Justin Trudeau is a feminist.
That is awesome!
When the word feminism comes up, I feel like I’m seeing the remains from a battle that happened long before I was born.
Because I am, I guess.
There’s a lot of baggage from the Sixties and Seventies.
At least this story had a happy ending!
It really does. And there is baggage..lots of baggage..but the struggle is still struggling. sigh.
Boom. I frickin love you. Love!!!
Right back at you, sister. xo
This was something I had to work on with my husband, his definition of feminism was quite skewed, and it took time to get him to see what being a feminist is all about. I feel like the social/political environment (especially online) has made this a much more difficult message to spread, in some circles intolerance and hate has become “cool”. Ugh, one person at a time right!?!
It is not easy and sometimes it seems hopeless to even try…but as I don’t accept that as an option, I will keep trying. 🙂
I blame much of the confusion on the asshattery of Rush Limbaugh and his constant demonizing of feminist by referring to them as femi-nazis. Unfortunately that poison leeched out into the mainstream populace. Education is the key to combating this. I think a meme is in order, Michelle, so we can easily share your message of enlightenment. I for one had never heard the term misandry before, and you can bet your ass I’ve added it to my lexicon.
Thank you Jane! And yes rush had much to do with this shit. I’ll get my IT department to work on the meme. haha
I’m sending this to my teen daughter. I was so upset one day when she said that she wasn’t a feminist because it means hating men. I don’t know who filled her head full of that propaganda, but it wasn’t anyone in my house! She’s such a fiercely independent girl who believes she should be able to do anything she wants to do regardless of gender. But she’s afraid of being called a “feminist” because of everything else that goes along with it??
I learned something new today (misandry)!
I feel bad for your daughter because we are just inundated with this bullshit. Feminism is NOT a bad word!
Another thing that should be pointed out about misandry is that even though it does exist we still live in a society where men hold a privileged position. The fact that Ledecky’s world record was relegated to a lower position illustrates that.
And also I want to go on the record for saying that I consider myself a feminist but sometimes feel uncomfortable using the word to describe myself because I don’t want to sound like I really get what women go through. Intellectually I’m aware of some of the issues women deal with but I don’t live with or deal with those issues in the same way women do.
This reminds me of a funny story. In college I knew a woman who was a lesbian. One day after class we got into a really interesting discussion and I said, “Hey, do you want to go get coffee?”
I could see a flicker in her eyes. I knew she was thinking, Did he just ask me out?
And I quickly said, “And I really mean coffee. Sometimes ‘coffee’ just means coffee.”
She laughed which was a huge relief because I felt like a jackass.
I remember that every time I see the Seinfeld episode where George screams, “Coffee doesn’t mean coffee!”
Anyone can be a feminist. I get what you are saying, but one gender doesn’t own the rights to that concept. Anyone who advocates equality for women is a feminist…whether they use the word or not. It’s not subjective. It is a word with a very clear definition.
Can I quote you on that? It is perfect! lmk
b
absolutely!
Excellent points made, Michelle. Good work on setting out the difference. I think the original feminist movement was pretty aggressive but it had to be. That’s where the image of bra burning etc. comes from. Like any social movement it has progressed. It has refined and also accomplished a great deal for us younger women (not so young now but at the time…).
Have you watched Michael Moore’s new documentary, “Where to Invade Next”? His study and visit to Iceland (one of several countries he visits) is very interesting. It’s all about the strength of women. Iceland voted in the first female President in 1972, the first democratic country to do so. She was a single mother. Talk about feminism—Iceland really models it in a positive way.
It really DID have to be aggressive. The we didn’t get the vote because women asked nicely. It was an enormous struggle. When you have to push against people who have the power, then there has to be some volume or they don’t listen. I also am crushing on Iceland right now. I did not see that Michael Moore film, but I think I will.
Totally agree with your sentiments, but would point out that the first female president of Iceland, Vigdís Finnbogadóttir, served from 1980 to 1996. She was, indeed, the world’s first democratically elected female president (head of state), dates regardless. There were female heads of government in democracies who were elected before then, including Indira Gandhi, PM of India (first elected 1966); Golda Meir, PM of Israel (elected 1969); Margaret Thatcher, PM of the UK (elected 1979). Despite my tiresome addiction to historical detail, all this just serves to sustain your point that it’s all about the strength of women.
I write this as the son, brother and husband of strong women, and in full support of the feminist movement.
And for that, I thank you. 🙂
I learned a new word too! Misandry! I love this! I hate that feminist is linked to hatred of men also and feel really most men just do not get it. I am not sure they really want to. My husband trys to and is a really good guy but.. like Cristopher said, it is hard for men to understand how is it to be a woman in a largely mans world? (probably much like it is hard for a white person to know what it feels like to be a black person- but that is another story) Yes they can treat us as equals but do they really feel that way deep down in side or just placating us? And when push comes to shove, will we really have those same priviledges from them or feelings? Sorry if I am rambling 🙂
Speaking of Rush – Did you hear his comments on Lesbian farmers? HAHAHAHA!
I share you on facebook often. I do not have a blog or website. I love your blog. This is the first time I have written a reply although I have wanted to before.
I am so glad you did! Thank you for sharing! I did not see what Rush said…I don’t know if I want to. haha.
something about lesbian farmers taking over the south because the government is giving them grants bla bla bla bla bla – he is on drugs I swear
He IS on drugs. He had an opiate addiction. Of course, he slammed drug addicts on his show. Fucking hypocritical douche face.
My response is short and sweet-right on, sister!
Big kisses to you!
Sharing on Facebook. Again. Nicely done.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I am a feminist. I make no apologies but strive to role model women who work for me and my family. I hope they do not have to work as hard to achieve the success that I endured with roadblocks because of my sex. Equality is feminism at it’s core. Good for you Michelle to encourage this dialogue!
Thank you so much! It is disheartening that by now we are still having to fight to even use the WORD feminism without being criticized for it.
I just realized that you don’t have a gravatar. On your own site. Get your tech support guy on that asap.
Second – SO MUCH THIS. I’m getting really angered lately at this whole burkini thing. Some MAN drives through the crowds on a holiday and now it’s women who are being harassed. For going to the beach and having fun with their families. It’s just fucking stupid. You want to know why there are extremists who believe that the white man is the devil? THIS IS WHY.
Randy is already looking into it. haha.
Yes, this is why! Bullshit like this.
This is so right on target in every sense. I was so pissed about newspaper and magazine articles during the Olympics that put men ahead of women even if the accomplishments weren’t the same. It is NOT a man’s world anymore. It’s an all-inclusive world. period. This entire political season comes down to old white men feeling they’re losing their superiority. Which they apparently earned simply by being born with a penis. Kudos to Simon for speaking out, too.
b
YES! So much yes to all of this.
I still remember the moment when I became a feminist. I was 13, and my sister was 17. She was trying to reason with my father, who would not let her go on a date until she was 18. She told him “I’m not going to go get pregnant or anything stupid like that.” to which he replied “Well I’m a man, and I know different.” All I knew at the time was that my blood ran cold, and it seemed totally unfair. My sister had a 4.0 grade average and she was president of the senior class. Also, as it turned out, she is gay, making the whole thing even more misguided.
I think most of the bad rap that feminism gets boils down to fear. I also think that, like racism and homophobia, it’s mostly a generational thing. Children learn what’s what by observation, and counteracting what they’ve learned that way is much more difficult than learning something different to begin with. So as more and more children grow up observing something resembling equality, more and more people will just see the world that way and the struggle for equality will shift to more (to us) subtle areas. Women couldn’t even vote until 1920, for fuck’s sake, 1920! And don’t even get me started about the way women are treated in other countries… Can you imagine not being allowed to drive a car or leave your house without a male chaperone?
In a way, the fear of feminism is misguided and far out of date. We don’t own human beings any more (mostly) and women are not possessions who need to be controlled. I keep thinking of Aussa, and her Facebook marriage proposal where she was characterized as a “ten goat girl.”
I can’t in good conscience write a comment about the backlash to feminism without saying something about advertising. Women are used as desirable objects to sell everything under the sun, and the horrible thing about that is that they wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work. So we still have work to do. And if I can blabber on even further, I will quote Molly Ivins on the subject:
“It seems to me that as a feminist I have spent years fighting for equality for women. I think it is a mistake to assume superiority for women. Whenever I think that we would be better off if women ran the world, which of course I secretly do, I remind myself of Louise Epstein. Louise Epstein is on the Austin City Council, and she’s just awful. And I quietly say to myself ‘Louise Epstein’ and it keeps things in perspective.”
I love this so much. I am glad you are on the planet, Doug. 🙂
I grew up in the seventies among the feminists of that era. I used to live in a feminist communityhouse in Amsterdam. These ones were extremely fanatic but I learned live lessons from them, most importantly the solidarity with women in general.
As a young woman I experienced that a lot of man are scum but I never became a man hater, I am too much a sucker for love…
I believe in equality of mankind and the freedom of every person to become whatever they want to become, male or female.We are all equal and that is why I will always be a feminist untill the day I stop breathing. Excuses for my English, it is not my native language.
Michelle, keep us informed, please !!!!
You expressed yourself beautifully! Thank you!
Here’s the thing I find about feminism: the actual bar for acceptance is way, way lower than a lot of the “I’m not a feminist” types think.
The other part is that they often can’t believe how much work there is left to do.
In a goddamn nutshell, right there.
Just last week I had a discussion with my daughter to explain feminists don’t hate men. Geeze! Last night I watched a documentary about the incredibly gutsy people who began the women’s movement in England. I know I never could’ve been so bold back in those days, so I’m eternally grateful for their perseverance, commitment, and their brilliant strength of character. I’m also quite certain that although this is a fight that will only end when all of humankind ceases to exist, there is so much to gain for each battle won.
I have higher hopes than that. I mean, maybe not in my lifetime..most assuredly not in my lifetime, but for my granddaughters? I like to think it’s possible. I am going to go ahead and believe that.
I don’t feel it’s hopeless. But realistically, we can see progress in most of the western world. Other, highly populated parts of this weird planet will continue to oppress women and suppress any efforts to grant them even basic rights. That’s why I wrote there’s so much to gain from every battle won (even teeny little battles in very far away places).
Yeah, you are so right. I am so guilty of only considering the reality I know and not considering the rest of the world. It’s not intentional, but I have to work at that. Thanks for the reminder! xo
This is great. My friend and I have been talking a lot about this but didn’t have a name for it. Misandry. My new word!
There are plenty of men who support feminism. We have been calling ourselves Meninists. Men who support feminists because people have become confused with what feminism is. haha. Mainly for use in “robust discussions” about equality.
This is a great article and very true. Misandry is the enemy just as racism and other bigotry. Nice one.
Thank you so much, Ian.
This isn’t a fancy or witty or super readable comment, but it’s a stone-cold-truthy comment: I love your blog, because of posts like this.
I just love the conversations. It’s not like everything I write is witty and it’s rarely fancy..I hope they are mostly readable though. haha. And thank you. 🙂